John Berry: 0:00

So today I've got a special midweek episode on a Wednesday because I went ahead and took a class. I took the KCBS barbecue judging class to make me not just a grill master but also a critic.

Announcement: 0:16

Time to fire up that grill. From smoked pork to smash burgers, outdoor cooking just tastes better. This is the Oki Smoking Podcast, and here's your host, john Berry.

John Berry: 0:44

So welcome in my name is John. This is the Oki Smoking Podcast, where we have episodes dropped, usually on Mondays. This is a special Wednesday episode, a little bit of a different style of episode. Usually I'm cooking food. We're talking about food we've cooked, we've ate, we've enjoyed. Today we're going to talk about the other people that critique your food, and that is a judge, which I have, just within about a couple of weeks ago, took the class. So I can also be a critic, as I am now a certified barbecue judge.

John Berry: 1:18

So right here in Moore, oklahoma, they held a class. I paid the fee required to take the class and to become a member of the KCBS as well as the OCBS, because you had to be a member in Oklahoma and as well as Kansas City. So I am officially a judge, and that is what we're going to talk about here. So this is something that was developed many years ago. In 1986 is when this all began, and it was a competition to where just a few people had a you know meets out, and they did it mostly for fun. We're not supposed to be taken seriously. Let's show what you got small entry fee and that type of thing and and then it developed into something now to where there is over 16,000 members and more than 500 contests across the United States and 45 countries internationally and now has over 50,000 certified judges in the world, and once you're a judge, you are able to judge anywhere in the world. So that's pretty cool. I can officially sign up to be a judge in Oklahoma around my area, or I can travel to an event out of state somewhere else and be a judge also.

John Berry: 2:47

So that is pretty much what that is, and I'm just going to go ahead and talk about some of the things in this podcast that I learned what types of meat that you will be judging and that are allowed to be presented in the judge. I'll also be talking about what some of the things are that the judges look at. So if you are looking to put out some competition meat, brisket or chicken, whatever it is, or all of them you'll kind of get an idea of what the certified judges are looking for. However, if there's not enough certified judges, there could be non-certified judges also ranking or judging and critiquing your food as well if there's a shortage of a supply, and that could also change how your food is is being judged. So that's what we're going to go over in this podcast episode, but what I did learn in the class let's go ahead and go over the basics of it and that is they are four different categories, four different meats that are judged by the KCBS.

John Berry: 3:57

There is the chicken, there is the ribs, there is the pork and there is the brisket. Now, normally the brisket will be what is judged last. Maybe not always, but I'm gonna also go over what it is they look for in each of those categories. But let's just back up one moment and start with the chicken. Now, when it comes to chicken, you can basically put any kind of chicken that you want out there. Do you want to present chicken legs? Do you want to present chicken wings? I do believe they said wings is very uncommon. I think chicken thighs is the most common chicken that you'll see. You can also put a variety out there, but you have to have at least six. You have to have at least, but you can have more.

John Berry: 4:52

So it's probably a good idea to go ahead and have eight or nine, or at least cook extra in case you mess one up. And then you're going to present those on the platter or the plate that it goes in so that each judge will be able to have a taste of each one of the chickens. So what are the things that they look for? Now, this is going to be for the chicken, ribs, pork and brisket. The first thing they're going to look at and judge you on is going to be appearance. Now, this is all stuff I learned in the class and we did get to do some taste testing as well as they cooked for us, but appearance is going to be the first thing they're going to look at. Does it look good? Does it look like something you would eat? And if it does, you've got a good chance of getting close to the high score of nine.

John Berry: 5:41

But if it don't look good, you can get a much lower score. So appearance will be number one. You want them to look good, you want them to look pretty, you want them to be presentable. While each piece does not necessarily need to be the exact size, it may not be a bad ideal. It could cause a judge to knock off a slight point, but it is not necessary to make sure everything is in exact uniform, but it just has to look good. If it looks good, then you got a good chance of getting close to or a nine.

John Berry: 6:11

The next category that they judge you on is aroma and taste. Does it taste good? Now? You looked at it before they judged you on appearance and it appeared it looked good and they gave you a high score. Now, does it really taste good? Because they're going to go ahead and take a bite out of it and they're going to, you know, see how well it tastes. Next, you're going to look at the texture. You know what is the texture of it Is it moist and all of that and you're going to go ahead and give a judge on that.

John Berry: 6:39

Is it tender? Is it? Is it tough? Is the?

John Berry: 6:44

If you have skin on it, are you able to bite through the skin. Is it causing a problem which brings me to another point is the skin is not required? Okay, the skin is only optional. So if you don't want to add the skin to it, you can leave it off. A matter of fact, I believe a lot of competition cooks do not add the skin, from what I understand and some of my research just because they know it's hard to get it. It's hard to get that skin just right. It's hard to get it right. You want to get the chicken breast to about 165 and you don't want it to go to 190 and be dry. But you've got to heat up the skin to make it crunchy as well. So you got to get it right. So it is a little tricky. So you don't need the skin on the chicken. Now you're going to be looking at these four things appearance, aroma, taste and texture and moisture for each one of these meats.

John Berry: 7:42

That was chicken. We went over. Let's go on to ribs. Now. A lot of people think ribs should fall off the bone and personally I like it to fall off the bone. Just give me that rib and pull the meat off. I'm good to go.

John Berry: 7:55

But when it comes to competition ribs and what the majority of the certified judges are going to want is for them to be able to bite into it, so that you get to the bone and you leave a nice bite out of it. You want it to be tender and you want it to pull away from the bone, but you don't want it to completely fall off the bone. If you get that, for most certified judges you should get a score of about nine on the tenderness, on the moisture and tenderness of it. So that would be one category. If it falls off the bone, your tenderness might actually only get around an eight or lower because it was overcooked, and that's where I also mentioned before. Sometimes you may have non-certified judges filling in. If you knew there was a bunch of certified judges filling in. They may prefer it to fall off the bone and you could get that nine if it does. So that's where the judging is.

John Berry: 8:52

There is a lot of perspective on it and there's a lot of opinion on it, but it's best to try to hit all of the key points that you believe are necessary that they're going to look for, and that includes on all of these. We're going to go over the taste and detail after we get through all of these and some of the things and some of the parts of the country that could affect you differently. So that's the main thing on the ribs is you want to make sure it's tender but it doesn't just fall off the bone and it also isn't too tough to you know, take a bite. Again, you'll want six of those or more whenever you present them and you want to make sure you cut through them all the way, because if a judge goes ahead and grabs one of the ribs and you didn't cut through it all the way, guess what? When they get it, they're gonna get basically two pieces of ribs and they're not gonna cut it in half. Then there's gonna be one judge short and that's gonna really hurt you.

John Berry: 9:54

So it's not a bad idea to go ahead and put about seven or eight ribs in there. That way there's an extra one. If one guy gets a double and the others only get one, it may not hurt your score, but at least everybody got one. So make sure they're cut through thoroughly and as well as make sure you have a couple extras if you want. Again, appearance will be the number one, one of the not the number one, but the first thing they look at and then taste texture and moisture on those on the ribs. So you can do barbecue baby back ribs and you can do spare ribs.

John Berry: 10:30

So either one of those- will be fine as well as St Louis style ribs. So spare ribs, st Louis ribs, loin ribs or back ribs are all accepted in this category. So I'm moving on pork Now. You can make this a number of ways. The pork could be just shredded, you know. You could just go ahead and pull pork, for example, just have a bunch of the pork pulled pork that you'd put on sandwich or something you could put that in for an entry. You would just need enough of it for every judge to be able to take a fork in there and and grab them some of the taste. That's usually from what they've said.

John Berry: 11:08

I haven't tried this, but we did have some of this presented during the class and it did not taste real good because it was dried up a little bit. So you may not get as good of a score when you use this method when you use the you know pulled pork method. So chunked or sliced might be the better option. But hey, you're the cook. You get to decide how you want to make it. I just want to make sure that it is tender. Appearance is good and is moist.

John Berry: 11:42

So we went through the chicken, we've talked about the ribs, we've now talked briefly about the pork and then, lastly, of the brisket. This is maybe one of my favorite. I do believe it is. This is going to be the last thing most of them have and it just needs to be looking good. It needs to have flavor, taste, texture, moisture. When you pull of the brisket it shouldn't just fall apart, but it should slowly break away in the middle, just a little, but it shouldn't fall apart. And then when you take a bite of it it should just tenderly chew right in your mouth and that would be an excellent brisket tasted, seasoning it and all that is going to pay a play, a factor in the taste, when it comes to how well it's seasoned. And that was what I was going to mention earlier and when I said it's going to vary based on where you are and what parts of the country you are. I know where I am. I like mine a little spicy. So if my ribs and brisket don't have just a mild kick of spice, you could get doctor point. But you may go to other parts of the country and they want it sweet and they say, oh, this is too spicy and you get doctor point. So, depending on where it is you are at when you're doing the competition, it's going to possibly vary exactly how you decide to go ahead and make it, because it is an opinion. So that is all the judging criteria of the four key categories of meat chicken, ribs, pork and brisket. It's pretty simple. It's pretty simple.

John Berry: 13:26

So let me go ahead and go over what it is required to become a certified judge and to remain one, and so all you really have to do is make sure you're a KCBS member in good standing and you pay your yearly dues. Uh, also, you would need your uh, okay, bs, uh, member standing for Oklahoma. You would also need to be at least 16 years old and then, uh, you must take the KCBS certified barbecue judge class. Uh, you can take the class at 15 and then that way, as soon as you're 16, you can can then be a certified judge, and then you just must remain a member and good standing. So every year, you need to renew your KCBS uh membership and then you will remain in good standing. If you don't pay it, you would not, of course, being good standing. Uh and uh, there's also some other things. If you violate some of the rules, uh, you could, you know, no longer be qualified to judge.

John Berry: 14:31

There are a few guidelines, uh, whenever you are judging, that you must follow, and that includes you, of course. They're simple things Arrival on time, don't be late Uh, you could be replaced. Uh, don't have your cell phones on during the judging contest. And also, when that food gets there, don't wait for everybody to get their food. Just plow right in. Man, you get your food. Take a bite.

John Berry: 14:53

This is going to move fast. You're going to. You're going to want to go ahead and go on time. You're done. You may have another round of stuff coming. So get your food, judge it immediately.

John Berry: 15:03

And, uh, if there's multiple samples in a container, uh, you can try a little of each uh and base the score on your overall taste. So you want to go through it quick? Uh, you don't want to lick your fingers. Uh, eat with the forks and the utensils and everything that has been given to you. Also, you're going to cleanse your palate between each uh test with a cracker, maybe a drink of water, and then, out of way, whenever you taste the next one, you've cleansed your palate and you don't have any of the previous uh sample still in your mouth and then that's going to be your dos and don'ts. You'll have a table captain. If anything arises, if anything should be disqualified or if there's anything going on for in product or something, they'll let you know what to do in in that uh particular time.

John Berry: 15:53

Uh, there's a few things you shouldn't do, and that's you don't want to be talking when you're at the judging table. You want to keep a poker face. If you don't like it, try your best to keep a poker face. If you love it, try to try your best to keep that poker face. And, uh, yeah, pretty much the simple stuff. There's no soda, you can't take pictures of the food and things like that, so just some basic stuff which you would get into. So that's just some of the dos and don'ts uh of being a certified judge. Uh, but no alcohol during judging uh, and you'll be fine.

John Berry: 16:28

So, sensory training sensory training is where you uh base your sensory training is where you uh basically blind taste tests, and that is uh how it is also kept, so that no one knows exactly what you're being judged. You may thank you do, but it is all blind taste tests, so you will not be able to uh find out who put the food you're judging in front of you. You will not know. You may have talked to the cooks the day before, but you will not know if that is what they cooked. Uh, so it is a blind test and uh, that that's pretty much uh the the the stake of that. So it is blind taste testing.

John Berry: 17:18

Now let me go over some of the rules and some of the things. You let's go over one of them garnishments. Uh, or you know, you you got these uh things that are placed on the plate, uh the plating, and those are really not necessary. You will not be docked to score, or should not be docked to score, just because you don't put any garnishments on there. There's even some garnishments that, if you put them on there, could disqualify you. So don't think you are required to put something on there, although while I say that it could make the appearance look better, so maybe it does cause your appearance to get a little better score and what I'm saying is there is some leafs or greens of lettuce that you might be able to put on the bottom, and when you put those chicken thighs or something on top of them, it lifts them up, and when it lifts them up it gives them a better view. That could cause your appearance to look better. While you can't be docked for not having the garnishments in there, by having them may make them look better than it is something you might want to consider.

John Berry: 18:28

I'm going to go over a few of the ones you cannot add to your garnishment list, and some of those are lettuce cores. You cannot have the lettuce cores. You also cannot have the kelp stems or other vegetation, including in-deave or red-tipped lettuce, and prohibited garnish will also cause your score to be one on appearance. So you want to make sure you read the rules. I think most people won't have to worry about that, as long as you use something legal, such as fresh lettuce, greens, curly green kale, curly parsley, flat leaf parsley. Cilantro is also allowed, but I don't believe it's used very much. Just make sure you know the rules in detail If you are going to be adding those.

John Berry: 19:24

There's a few other things that you cannot do, and that is have sauce. You don't want to cup a sauce in there. That is prohibited. Be sure you just rub the sauce on the meat that you're wanting. Judged they will dock you heavily if there's sauce again with a one on appearance. So no dipping sauce, no sauce on the side or any of that, and you will also get a approved container and you can only put them in them containers.

John Berry: 19:52

So these are things that I learned in the class that if you're planning on creating the cup or entering a competition, just some of the things that you might not know that the judges are looking for, I think the majority of that you would know, but how they go ahead and judge the appearance, the taste and the moisture and the texture, it just is a different, a little bit of a different view than someone that's always cooking it.

John Berry: 20:25

Now I, as I mentioned, have only taken the class, so I can't speak on the actual judging as of yet. So when I do, in the future, do an actual judging, I will go ahead and create another special podcast on how the judging works. So I don't want to create a podcast about something that I've heard. I'm only commenting on the, on what I've learned in the class and the view of the class, which the class was actually really fun and it's something if it ever comes to your area, even if you don't you know really plan on judging, which I think it'll be cool you want you might consider taking the class.

John Berry: 21:06

And also, I got the comment card here. There's yellow comment cards that the judges can leave after they give your score they don't have to and here's some of the things that they can checkmark on the comment card. That just gives you maybe some advice or at least gives you a sense of why you didn't score well or maybe why you did score well. So under the taste score they can put the score and under the appearance score they can put the score and under the tenderness score they can put the score on this comment card. Under the appearance they can go ahead and write a comment about the appearance and under the taste they can actually check a few things. They could say check too salty, bitter, bland, no flavor, which, yeah, I don't like bland, I don't like no flavor, I want some seasonings. I mean, throw you two layers, three layers make it taste good, dislike, unknown. They could also check satisfying, enjoyable savory. So if they give you a good score, they could have those checked. Pleasant, burnt, that would be one which, just because I just burnt up or got to mention one thing about brisket, I'll get to in just a minute. Too spicy, too sour, too sweet, too peppery or too smoky. So those are all things that they can check in the taste score. And when I was talking about the burnt earlier I didn't mention when you do brisket, you can do brisket or you can do burnt ends, so it don't have to be just a traditional brisket. If the competition cook wants to do burn ends, they bring it to you. We're going to judge what's put in front of us. The judges are going to judge what's put in front of them. That's why I said if you get, don't cut all the way through one rib, and when they grab it there's two. But you still had eight in the box, so everybody got one. Everybody can judge. You may not get cut, you're not going to get penalized. He got two of them. He's going to judge what's in front of him and if it tastes good, if it looks good, you could very well still get a nine. Even he got double the ribs and he may be happy. Now you can the judges can also have a small ice chest with ice, throw that in a Ziploc bag and have that a little later. So you might get a good nine, if that's real good. I know the comment card on the tenderness score. There's one option that you can check that says meets the KCBS tenderness test. So if it meets all the qualifications, the ribs didn't fall off the bone, the the brisket didn't pull apart too much to thigh when you bite into it. If you had a chicken thigh you went to the bone, it just come out perfect. The tenderness score meets the KCBS tenderness test. They can also check too tough, chewy, mushy, or they can choose fatty, grainy and gristle and again, satisfying and enjoyable. A few more on there is dry, rubbery or pleasant, and there's an option where they can leave additional other comments as well if they wanted to. So those are.

John Berry: 24:27

That's just a comment card, not the scorecard. They do not have to leave a comment card. I would. I was told in the class if you do leave a fairly negative score, it's nice to leave a comment card, you know. So they don't just say I don't know what I did wrong. What did this person not like about it? Give me some feedback and you know. But it's also when I was taking the class and the way they approached it in here is you don't want to punish, you really don't want to punish the cook for many things. If, for example, the appearance looks good and I just want to eat it, my stomach's growling when I look at it. But one side may be a little uneven. It looks like.

Announcement: 25:18

I want to eat it.

John Berry: 25:19

That's a nine man, that is good.

John Berry: 25:20

Now I don't know how the approach is in all parts of the country and how the class is everywhere, but that is more of the approach that they, that they give when I took the class and that's pretty much all I have on taking the class. Once I judge and once I talk to some more judges, I will create a follow-up episode about the KCBS and the class that I took and how some of the judging does does actually work. So I guess some of the takeaways that I would say in closing here is just make sure you do your best, Make sure you have six items or more and I stress more in case one messes up in any way. There still is something for all the judges to eat and to test, Appearance tenderness, make sure you're on time and all that. Make sure you put the garnish mitts, Make sure that are legal or don't put any at all, and of course you'll want to check all the rules. But it was a really fun class. The first two hours basically was a PowerPoint presentation and went over most of the rules and things a lot more than what I talked about. I could be talking forever about it and read the whole book to you and bore you to death, which, as a judge, you'll get the book and if you want to comment or leave me an email at john at okeysmokincom that's J-O-H-N. At O-K-I-E-S-M-O-K-I-N. Com, I will be glad to read your comments about it. If you have some questions and enjoyed this episode, please let me know. If you want to follow up episode or are interested in some more episodes like this about the judging of the competition meet, I'd be glad to talk about it. I'll reply to any emails I get and would consider future episodes At least talk about some of the stuff in some of my episodes Coming up.

John Berry: 27:29

In my next episode that's going to launch this Monday it will be released the 26th of February it's going to be a podcast episode. I'm going to talk about some alligator cooking. So we're getting back off of the judging part, which this podcast is more about the cooking enthusiast rather than the critics. So I'm going to be cooking some alligator not a full alligator, but we got some that I had someone bring me from Mississippi. You know you're like how the heck does he got alligator in Oklahoma, the land of the beef.

John Berry: 28:04

Well, I had someone from Mississippi bring me some and so, yeah, that'll be on next Monday I'm going to be doing some alligator. It makes some alligator tacos actually, and I'll be having a video of that and we'll talk about that in my very next episode. Until next time, go ahead and be sure you subscribe to this podcast, follow it on whatever media platform you're listening to it on. I'll see you guys soon, or I'll talk to you guys soon. I'm so used to the video and I always say see you, but you know I'm going to talk to you.

Announcement: 28:38

Bye, Thank you for listening to the Oki Smoking Podcast. Episodes drop every Monday. Don't forget to follow this podcast or you might miss out on some delicious creations. You can also find us on our website, oki-smokingcom, and on YouTube and other social media platforms. Until next time, keep firing up that grill.